Arabs destroyed your cultures?
Why do so many historically non-Arab Arab speaking groups in the Middle East (like Syrians, Lebanese, Palestinians, Iraqis, Egyptians, Maghrebis, etc.) quickly forget how their cultures were destroyed by Arab Muslim imperialists?
I don't mean to offend, but it bothers me how these peoples are so proud to be Arab and will stick up for other "Arabs" like Palestinians, but unite against non-Arab Middle East aborigines like Copts, Berbers, and Israeli Jews. They want the whole Middle East to be Muslim and Arab, when that culture and religion was forced upon them in the first place!
Its also a shame how Arab for the most part wiped out Egyptian, Assyrian, Zoroastrian, etc. culture. I also dislike how they have imposed this Arab identity upon a lot of Jews (and Jewish Christians) in Palestine (in the past, during the rise of Islam) so that they now call themselves "Palestinians" and hate their brethren (other Jews).
And if all of this hadn't had happened, there would be no militant Islam (or it would be weaker).
What do you "Arabs" out there think? Why do you cling on to Arab culture and Pan-Arabism?
Comments
Well....I can Say with utter confidence that your question is totally flawed, both historically and logically!
First of all the arab culture didn't cause any harm tonthe local cultures of the places you mentioned, it enriched them. For instance take Egypt as an example, by the time the Arabs reached Egypt it was under the rule of the romans, who were the ones who contributed greatly to establishing religious persecution to the copts. Besides, they were the ones who sucked all the wealths of Egypt for their own good and benefit, leaving Egypt in a terrible statenof misery,poverty and oppression. Now what happened to Egypt after the Arabs reached there? Actually by the time of the medieval ages between 800-1200 AD, Egypt was one of the most important cultural centres of the world...this is simply undeniable.
"unite against the copts..." what kind of nonsense are you trying to deliver?! The copts are currently living as equal citizens to all other Egyptians, with equal rights and duties...when Amr ibn ul A'as reached Egypt during the time of the Caliph Omar, he was received by the coptic priests, and actually he assigned copts for the leading places in Egypt since they were the best to know about their own country. Does this sound like wiping a culture?! Wiping a culture is something like what Columbus and the Europeans did with the native Americans...which is using violence to exterminate a whole race, and replacing it by another!
Berbers...allow me to say that these people didn't even have what could deserve being labeled as a culture before the Arabs reached them...while at the Arab times, north of Africa and Andalusia were the centres of all the culture which was the bas of the modern renaissance of Europe. Just look for the number of scientists who used to study at Cordoba and you'll be stunned. The arab culture is the one which gave the modern day Spain one of the seven wonders of the world!
Jews?! Huh...who cares! These people are basically homeless. Something to add to your knowledge is that the Arabs are of a race that existed looong way before Judaism came into being in Egypt,and by the time the Arabs arrived there was no jews there, so the Arab culture can't have been to be the one to wipe off judaism. And if you will start referring to Palestine, know that by the time the Arabs reached there in the seventh century they were not part of the population there too. Only in Madinah in Arabia they dwelt at the time of the prophet, where peace treaties were arranged between them and muslims that gave the right for them to live in peace, until they breached them themselves and played the game of treachery.
Dude...read history!
@ Sherif
1. You MORON, how stupid can you be? Can you tell the difference between Romans and Byzantines? Constantine converted to Christianity and officialized it in 313 and Arabs invaded Egypt in 639. For 326 years, Egypt was a Christian country in a Christian empire (and no war was involved!).
Zakat is NOT compensation to non-Muslims for Jizya since Muslims are the preferable recipients of both. Zakat was 2.5 per cent of income, while jizya was often much higher.
Most of the rebels WERE Copts (e.g. the Peshmurian revolt, which was even characterized by a refusal to pay the Jizya).
'The Arab invasion and conquest of Egypt in the seventh century was marked by a series of Coptic revolts, which were suppressed with increasing severity and violence' (Cambridge History of Christianity)
Spare me the anecdotal stories of the sahaba.
2. How are Copts allowed to run for President when the Constitution says the President must be a Muslim?!
Dear moron, you need a permit to build a mosque which can come from the lowest local authority. Years ago to build or repair a church, you needed a presidential decree. Now to build or repair a church, you need a gubernatorial decree. These are much higher, slower levels of authority than you need for a mosque.
Dear moron, I lived in Egypt for 17 years, 8 of them as an ex-Muslim, and I know for a fact that I would not be able to officially convert to another religion and would be arrested if I said anything about atheism.
Finally dear moron, I know about the Muslim children. It's why Islam allows interfaith marriage, unlike Christianity or Judaism. The Jewish or Christian woman can have Muslim children instead of Jewish or Christian children. The kaffirs are kept in check and the Muslim population grows. It's about expansion, not tolerance, and it's a sh*tty reason to justify marital discrimination against Copts.
3. This is not about the civilizational level of the Imazighen.
Your quote on the Moroccan Jews is nonsense. In 1948 Morocco had a quarter of a million Jews, and these people did not just all voluntarily disappear. Read about the Oujda and Djerada pogroms and others which began it. The same thing happened in all Arab or Muslim countries. More Jews were forced their countries than Palestinians. Jews have a much older history in their countries than Arabs do. A million people didn't just pack their bags and go when Israel was created!
4. Sure it would take 150 years. Alexander the Great was only fighting one huge empire, Muslims were fighting several.
@Sarik : another example of a typical ignorant whose islamophobic attitude has affected his common sense. Here's your argument refuted point by point...and I'm not gonna speak In an offensive language as yours because that's not the arab attitude, even if you're having issues with your respect to others.
1)No difference?! Yea right! All I have to do I think is quote the following "The Egyptian church was particularly affected by the Roman persecutions, beginning with Septimius Severus's edict of 202 dissolving the influential Christian School of Alexandria and forbidding future conversions to Christianity. In 303 Emperor Diocletian issued a decree ordering all churches demolished, all sacred books burned, and all Christians who were not officials made slaves"...btw, why don't you look up google for the age of Martyrs?! ...Also as a continuation of your flawed argument, you speak of the burden of the Jizyah on the non-muslims, disregarding the concept of Zakah which was acting parallely on muslims! Besides, the christians had utter freedom of belief, the local governors were Copts, and probably you have heard of the story of the Copt who went to the Caliph Omar to complain against Amr bin al A'as, who was a coompanion of the prophet...definitely you don't know, so look it up, and then admit your ignorance. And Btw some if not most of the revolts that evoked were both by muslims and non-muslims...which shows the nature of the differences that existed. It was merely a political difference, and still it was way better conditions than the Byzantines!
2)Flawed flawed flawed argument! Copts are allowed to run for presidency, and the problems about converts to Islam are basicly non-existent, and if there was someone who raises it then logically it would be the Copts not the muslims! Worship places both for christians and muslims need decrees
would be the Copts not the muslims! Worship places both for christians and muslims need decrees from the government. There are basicly very rare muslims who convert to christianity or atheism, yet they have the right to! And as for the matter of marrying muslim women, yes it is not allowed and it's because the children of muslim parent(s) should be raised as muslims. And btw most coptic families don't allow their daughters to marry muslims too, and we think it's fine because such sort of personal beliefs don't hurt anyone. Yes...again your argument is flawed
3)Have you heard of the phoenicians?! These are the ones who established Carthage. Phoenicia is the present day LEBANON! So basicly it is not a civilization raised by the local Berbers. As for the rest all I need is to quote "Berbers are mostly Sunni Muslim, while the Mozabites of the Saharan Mozabite Valley are mostly Ibadite. Until the 1960s, there was also an important Jewish Berber community in Morocco,[45] but emigration reduced their number to only a few hundred individuals." apparently you're the only one who detest Islam and you just try to reflect it on others, since a majority of Sunni muslims cannot hate themselves.
4)You think Islam was spread by violence...bcs it took 150 years?! Dude, violence would Take only 10-12 years...just like what happened with Alexander the Great. Again I'll tell you READ HISTORY before whining in your lame speeches. And yea, the jews emigrated on their OWN will at the period from 1930-1970 to their "promised land" Israel. Now go celebrate your marvelous argument!
European and American jews originated in the area of Asia around the Caspian Sea.
They have no racial connection to the Middle East but were merely converts to Judaism.
They were then driven westwards into Russia , Poland and Central Europe by the Mongol invasion of the 13th century.
These are the jews called Ashkenazi.
The Sephardic jews are descendants of North African converts to Judaism.
That's why these people have different features from the few Middle Eastern jews.
The true descendants of the people of the Bible are the Palestinians who converted from Judaism to Christianity and Islam when those religions became powerful.
Those countries where the legal system is governed very much by legal precedent are borrowing that practise from Sharia Law. The practise of having a written constitution that overrides both legislators and court precedent comes from the Islamic practise of having the Koran act as the constitution. Of course with the Koran there is not a provision for amending it. Or at least Muslims generally assume there is no such provision because they assume there will be no further prophet(s). The declaration that Muhammad is the last prophet. But it is not clear to me from that whether the word last means most recent or final.
First of all Copts are Arabs too! And Arabs will not unite against their Arab Copts, they protect them and stand next to them.
And they hate Israelis, because Israelis occupy their land illegally and kill and terrorize their Arab brothers in Palestine. It's not about religion or that they're not Arabs. Would you like someone to occupy your home, and kill your family? What would you do if someone did that? And how would you feel if someone told you that you hate those people that killed your family and are in your home just because they are of a different ethnicity? Well this is how I'm feeling right now about your ignorance.
They identify themselves as Palestinians because thats where they are from, of course they hate people who have come in and taken over their land. Those Israeli (European) jews you refer to are more are so far distanced from the indigenous people of that lands, they do not have a connection with it.
By your logic, why does any current country & people cling to their identity? History is history! Why do Americans "quickly forget" their European roots? Simply because they were born in the US & identified as American since birth, that is all they know!
Sherif H deserves the best answer,he said all.
maybe not