Toronto as a seperate province?
I've been reading up about the idea of Toronto becoming an 11th province and was wondering how other people felt. Living in the GTA (Mississsauga), I thought the idea was stupid, but after reading about how Toronto overshadows the rest of Ontario, I wanted to know how everybody else feels. Input?
Here are some articles:
Comments
This guy Don Martin is an idiot`s idiot and that is a kind characterization of the moron and should be fired just for being an idiot.
Morons do Not speak for me and how this Moron got a job at the post is an international mystery that may never be solved.
T.O. IS THE BEST city in Canada and anybody that says they hate it have issues and or are butt stupid.
When the last census data came out, I looked at the numbers for Canada, the Provinces, and Toronto. It occurred to me that if Toronto were a separate province, we'd be third largest by population, after Quebec and the rest of Ontario.
I can see advantages. Toronto sends more money to the Province than comes back. But that probably doesn't include the money spent and earned by provincial employees who live here. We might be economically better off as a Province. The rest of Ontario would suffer without the tax base, but not a whole bunch. And if the provincial capital were not in the GTA we'd lose a whole bunch of economic activity that would be gained by where ever the capital ended up.
I really like the idea of Toronto being able to keep the income and property taxes generated here. I think we could have much better services with the same or lower levels of taxation. I think that a financially independent Toronto government would be greener, and more responsive to the needs of Torontonians.
We would be rid of all the effing neo-cons in the 905 belt. And that "maverick" Bill Murdoch (I tend to think of him as more lunatic than maverick). Although he might be our provincial hero for starting the ball rolling, but only if he promises to stay in Grey-Bruce. (Hey, can we separate Durham from the rest of the country and give it to the US? Then Jim Flagherty wouldn't be our problem anymore).
We'd have our own senate seats. Our numbers in the house of commons and senate overall wouldn't change.
Local government would cost a lot more. But, we wouldn't be paying a share of the cost of running the rest of Ontario.
Overall, I can see some pretty good advantages, and haven't noticed many major disadvantages. I think I must be missing something though. And if the rest of the country starts to really really hate on us (like they only hate us a little at this point) we could threaten to separate.
Wait, there's a big difference between Toronto as a city and as a metropolitan area (the GTA). Which is going to separate? BrainDeadZombie first says Toronto would be the 3rd largest province - which is referring to the GTA - but then says it won't have "neo-cons" from the 905, which is a contradiction. Toronto as a city has only 2.5 million people, less than Alberta. (I say Toronto politicians are the real radicals, not the "neocons").
The National Post article is a reason why I refuse to read any Toronto newspapers. No real reason besides gripes about "we're Toronto and everyone else is a hater". London and Paris are treated differently? New York is "hated" just as much in the USA and it's proportionally smaller.
The MPP Bill Murdoch says the GTA, not Toronto itself, should be its own province. So David Miller wants that? Or did he misread too? Also where do you split it up - if Halton is part of the Province of Toronto, why not Hamilton?
The GTA makes up about 42% of Ontario's population, less than metro Montreal in Quebec or Vancouver in BC. If Toronto separates, why wouldn't they?
Toronto shouldn't separate IMO, but I think rural Ontarians have a point. Canadian culture isn't as friendly to rural or suburban people as some countries are. There's isn't an equivalent to "middle America" in Canada.
Saying cities shouldn't pay for rural areas is just arrogance. The whole point of provinces is to take care of both rural and urban people. What if every city separated? I've seen signs saying "Farms feed cities" in rural Ontario. I say they should stop sending food to TO if it separates.
This idea has been floated at least once a decade in one form or another. The only one that even made a little sense was splitting Ontario into 2 provinces a north and south Ontario.
Making the province of Hog Town will never see the light of day, because for one thing Quebec wouldn't want to see that happen because even more power would be concentrated in this region.
I don't agree with that idea. Toronto is big but just not big enough to become a province... although Prince Edward Island has managed to be a very small province there seems to be no reason for Toronto to become the 11th province. Toronto is fine being part of Ontario. That's my opinion.
Really stupid idea. Ontario loves being the voting powerhouse of Canada. If Toronto became its own province, both the remainder of Ontario and Toronto would suffer in the long run, and that would make Quebec the big boy on the block, at least at voting time. (actually the way things are in this country they seem like the Big Boy most times regardless...they always seem to get their way...the whiners...) There is not another place in this country as self important as Toronto. Why boost its ego by giving it provincial status? Don't we already have one officially spoiled brat province, in our nation within a nation??
A dumb idea but glad it came up as it got me thinking too. Here out west we think of it as Ontario overshadowing the rest of Canada. So to stop and think that there are 1 million Northern Ontario people that the rest of canada thinks are no different than Toronto people, and also are overshadowed is food for thought. (Geographically, it makes more sense for me to think of a Northern Vs Sourthern Ontario division, so those are the numbers I use)
However, join the club guys. The majority of Canadians feel that way, those Northern Ontario people aren't alone. Reality is Northern Ontario people still think more like Toronto people than they do like BC or Albertans. So why separate.
And if you did that why would you stop at 11? BC is no different. Vancouver is about 3 million of 4.5 million. The 1.5 million not in Vancouver feel no different than Northern Ontario. And there is MORE of them, 50% more than a Northern Ontario Province would be. So maybe it should be done in BC first? Or maybe like North Eastern BC proposes joining Alberta for these same overshadowed reasons, that Northern Ontario should consider just joining Manitoba? Then Alberta? What about the 3 way thing they have there? 1 million in Calgary, 1 million in Edmonton, 1 million elsewhere and all three are different. But it is that million people again so if it is good enough for northern Ontario why not 3 Alberta's?
I am begining to think that self centred Ontario is thinking boo-hoo, poor old me, when their situation is the same across the whole country. That the rest of the country knows this is how it is across Canada and Ontario can only see it as their problem and not knowing what goes on in the rest of the country.....
Its great for politicians looking to get their names in the Headlines but lets face it, they already can't afford to run the city and complain that people who travel and work there do not live there (and therefore can't be taxed to help pay for the services they use). I can see it being like Washington DC, IF it ever tries to go that way. No real voice, no money to do anything and no way to really carry on. Rather then "drive the bus" they would just be another voice in the wilderness if they wanted Provincial status.
There would be no advantages and a lot of disadvantages.
dumb idea and will never happen.
and if it does happen it'll never work.